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Post by James on May 29, 2015 22:42:04 GMT -5
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02sc1rfDefinitely worth watching if you have 10 minutes. Neil Gaiman and Kazuo Ishiguro talking about the divide, or lack of, between genre and literary fiction.
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Post by Kaez on May 30, 2015 9:36:13 GMT -5
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Post by J.O.N ((Dragonwing)) on May 30, 2015 10:11:56 GMT -5
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Post by ASGetty ((Zovo)) on May 30, 2015 12:27:27 GMT -5
This is why she's a millionaire and you're not. |
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Post by James on May 30, 2015 15:28:12 GMT -5
Dramatic readings of bad prose for Inklings today? |
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Post by The Counter Cultist(Sawyer) on May 30, 2015 15:39:28 GMT -5
If that's the case I think my local library has some Knaak in stock.
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Post by James on Jun 3, 2015 3:44:14 GMT -5
Did some writing for the first time in a while (work and judging the competition has been keeping me busy). I'm reworking the middle bit of that military fantasy story I posted for Inklings.
Feels good to be writing again. That was the first two/three week break I had without writing this year.
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Post by Kaez on Jun 3, 2015 10:28:54 GMT -5
Finally "getting into the groove" of my summer work schedule is allowing me to finally return to doing my worldbuilding and writing as well.
And it's good to be back.
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Post by James on Jun 4, 2015 5:34:19 GMT -5
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Post by Kaez on Jun 4, 2015 8:30:35 GMT -5
I find the whole debate about genre stigmatization to be so tremendously irrelevant.
It seems like something that's only an issue if you're writing with profit as a primary motivation.
The disdain that some fantasy writers seem to have about being -called- fantasy writers makes me think that -they also- think it's somehow derogatory or inferior.
And at any rate, the whole issue is bogus. Game of Thrones and Harry Potter right now are 1,000x bigger cultural phenomenons right now than Lord of the Rings was at its peak. And add on all the smaller franchises like Twilight. Fantasy is not stigmatized to nearly the degree they say. I would go so far as to say that it's effectively not stigmatized at all. It sounds to me like they're talking, largely, about which authors get paid the most, just in a roundabout way.
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Post by ASGetty ((Zovo)) on Jun 4, 2015 11:27:47 GMT -5
Sees to come down to what I was saying earlier in this thread; genre is defined by the reader. If you worry about genre and genre tropes while you're writing, you're doing the story a disservice.
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Post by James on Jun 4, 2015 13:49:26 GMT -5
The disdain that some fantasy writers seem to have about being -called- fantasy writers makes me think that -they also- think it's somehow derogatory or inferior. As far as I've read about Terry Pratchett, he thought fantasy was incredibly important. However, Pratchett's books are so obviously satire first, fantasy second and yet Pratchett as a satirist was hardly ever acknowledged over Pratchett as the fantasy writer. So I can see it would be kind of grating. I doubt it. I'm pretty sure genre and romance writers get paid more than literary writers these days, anyway. I think to say fantasy isn't stigmatised "at all" is kind of ridiculous. The whole discussion came about because The Buried Giant got reviews from 'respectable grown-up critics' who started their reviews with "when I heard that Ishiguro's new book was fantasy, I cringed." Heck, -I- have got a few looks from people who ask what I write and I reply with "mostly fantasy". I think the article's whole point, though, is that the stigma is reducing. That the public are ahead of publishers/booksellers/critics as seeing fantasy of equal worth. It's there, but it's in the process of disappearing. Besides all that, though, I think the discussion is worth it just because it makes you think about fantasy and sci-fi's place and the stories you can tell within it. Like the bit about China's sci-fi convention. Or dystopias. Or the longevity of certain themes. |
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Post by ASGetty ((Zovo)) on Jun 4, 2015 14:04:37 GMT -5
Personally, and I'm sure you all know this by now, I've never been a fan of genre labels. Or, really, any sort of label which creates a divide within a culture which -should- be integrated. When people ask me what I write I usually just answer "short fiction" because even though I know much of it might fit into a certain genre, I don't like the assumptions naming said genre creates in a readers mind. Like with the world building competition, those stories are clearly fantasy; but if someone asked me what sort of story I wrote for the competition and I said, "Oh, I went with a Fantasy." the first thing that popped into their head would be -wildly- different from what I'd actually written. If I really want to narrow it down I have to say, "It's a mythological low-fantasy with heavy Polynesian influences" which, lets be honest, is a really long genre title.
However, at the same time, I've begun to understand why every time I hear a new band they seem coupled with a new genre I've never heard of. It's why you've got like 200 sub-genres of heavy metal; or why every band you hear is "a cross between This Guy, That One Band, and Those Other Guys" because everyone wants to be unique, but at the same time, your "brand" has to have some degree of familiarity in order to resonate with a prospective new audience.
Genres are weird, labels are weird, I dislike both of them.
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Post by James on Jun 4, 2015 14:21:42 GMT -5
Personally, and I'm sure you all know this by now, I've never been a fan of genre labels. Or, really, any sort of label which creates a divide within a culture which -should- be integrated. When people ask me what I write I usually just answer "short fiction" because even though I know much of it might fit into a certain genre, I don't like the assumptions naming said genre creates in a readers mind. Like with the world building competition, those stories are clearly fantasy; but if someone asked me what sort of story I wrote for the competition and I said, "Oh, I went with a Fantasy." the first thing that popped into their head would be -wildly- different from what I'd actually written. If I really want to narrow it down I have to say, "It's a mythological low-fantasy with heavy Polynesian influences" which, lets be honest, is a really long genre title. However, at the same time, I've begun to understand why every time I hear a new band they seem coupled with a new genre I've never heard of. It's why you've got like 200 sub-genres of heavy metal; or why every band you hear is "a cross between This Guy, That One Band, and Those Other Guys" because everyone wants to be unique, but at the same time, your "brand" has to have some degree of familiarity in order to resonate with a prospective new audience. Genres are weird, labels are weird, I dislike both of them. I agree with that a lot. I actually it might be cool to ditch "the genre rounds" we have in AWR competitions, just to get away from people thinking "so I'm writing in this genre, what should the story be?" when in reality the process should be "I want to write this story, I'll worry about genre later." |
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Post by ASGetty ((Zovo)) on Jun 4, 2015 14:26:13 GMT -5
Personally, and I'm sure you all know this by now, I've never been a fan of genre labels. Or, really, any sort of label which creates a divide within a culture which -should- be integrated. When people ask me what I write I usually just answer "short fiction" because even though I know much of it might fit into a certain genre, I don't like the assumptions naming said genre creates in a readers mind. Like with the world building competition, those stories are clearly fantasy; but if someone asked me what sort of story I wrote for the competition and I said, "Oh, I went with a Fantasy." the first thing that popped into their head would be -wildly- different from what I'd actually written. If I really want to narrow it down I have to say, "It's a mythological low-fantasy with heavy Polynesian influences" which, lets be honest, is a really long genre title. However, at the same time, I've begun to understand why every time I hear a new band they seem coupled with a new genre I've never heard of. It's why you've got like 200 sub-genres of heavy metal; or why every band you hear is "a cross between This Guy, That One Band, and Those Other Guys" because everyone wants to be unique, but at the same time, your "brand" has to have some degree of familiarity in order to resonate with a prospective new audience. Genres are weird, labels are weird, I dislike both of them. I agree with that a lot. I actually it might be cool to ditch "the genre rounds" we have in AWR competitions, just to get away from people thinking "so I'm writing in this genre, what should the story be?" when in reality the process should be "I want to write this story, I'll worry about genre later." Perhaps instead of "Genre" rounds we could do something more like "Concept" rounds. |
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