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Post by James on Feb 16, 2016 16:46:19 GMT -5
]My one concern here is that you're showcasing your worldbuilding by having these travellers going around... but these people are already quite different from typical fantasy. All that talk in the first two paragraphs. You're going to need to find a way to convey that background information while somehow making it sound 'normal'. I don't think that was a such problem with your inital plan, where the characters felt a little more down to earth. Yeah, some time would need to be devoted to explaining that division. But I really don't think it would take all too much time and effort to do that. I think there's a sense in which these characters are -more- relatable than the previous ones. These guys will react and respond and act -more like- you or I would if we were transported to a fantasy world. They're more outsiders, and that makes them closer to the audience, no? I guess so. I mean, it's quite hard to say right now just because we're working off a concept. I'd be able to say more once we're seeing these characters in action. But it's not quite so much the characters that I'm concerned with. It's the setting that they're coming from. We're coming at this as a travelodge of a fantasy world. And our protagonists have this "almost sci-fi influences". That's not what you'd expect as a reader to kick the whole thing off. My concern is how well that will come off as the foundation of a narrative, rather than being a place we get to experience once we're in full flow of the story. I'm leaning toward first person. I think comedy can be easier from first person and it allows you to showcase the setting with a personal touch. That sounds very good. I like that a lot. But at some point they need to lose it and leave it behind. Like an episode of Top Gear. Throw Top Gear in our comedic touchstones for this as well. |
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Post by Kaez on Feb 16, 2016 21:10:23 GMT -5
I agree with everything you've said, James.
Zovo, I mean, for the most part, that's what I'm doing. I was resistant of doing a travelogue at first and tried to do more of a cohesive narrative, but the more the idea evolves, the more it leads back toward an episodic travelogue.
That said, I'm not sure about the idea of dropping continuity, because continuity really is what allows for character growth and development. Writing pure stand-alones doesn't really allow much room for characters to change or develop relationships.
I'm thinking maybe it should be somewhere between the two, like a sitcom: there are some overarching, continuous narratives, but each piece is generally meant for single consumption as well.
Thoughts on opening up the cast? I think 3 may be kind of small, now. Maybe a caravan of 6ish.
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Post by James on Feb 16, 2016 21:16:44 GMT -5
Thoughts on opening up the cast? I think 3 may be kind of small, now. Maybe a caravan of 6ish. I think 3 is good. Partly because it's easier to write and keep a track of three characters. Give them more room to breathe. But also, it allows you room to move people in and out. Perhaps when they're in Rosia, they end up spending a lot of time with someone from Rosia. And then he hitchhikes with them down to not-Rosia where he leaves to do his own thing. But then a few weeks later they meet a nice girl from other-not-Rosia and hang with her. |
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Post by ASGetty ((Zovo)) on Feb 16, 2016 21:39:50 GMT -5
Thoughts on opening up the cast? I think 3 may be kind of small, now. Maybe a caravan of 6ish. I'm actually tempted to say start with even less than three and build. But yeah, at most three to start, gives you the flexibility to add more later without completely overwhelming yourself with characters to keep track of. Think of it like those character heavy RPGs, get too many players in the game and you end up with two or three that are really good, and then a whole pile that don't really contribute. |
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Post by Kaez on Feb 16, 2016 22:16:46 GMT -5
First of all, THANK YOU GUYS. I really enjoy and appreciate being able to brainstorm this idea. For context, the Baksami Empire is culturally distinct from the rest of Western Amostine. While most of the continent is inspired heavily by Europe and traditional medieval fantasy, Baksam Saga is something like if medieval Persia had the Renaissance rather than Italy, and instead of a Renaissance of technology and art, it was a renaissance of technology and art and MAGIC. They’re quite sophisticated in comparison to most of the West, and the worldview/religion most common to Baksam, Arcanism, is radically different from that found anywhere else in the West. This is an area of the setting that highlights its almost-sci-fi influences. The most adept of Baksami magi travel through planes and to different worlds, and this has shaped their metaphysics and religion dramatically.
Perhaps unsurprisingly, Baksam has developed something of a superiority complex in relation to the other cultures and peoples with whom it shares a planet. It’s quite fashionable for Baksami magi and aristocracy in particular to behave and speak in ways that emphasize their objectivity and detachment from their home planet, which they now see as merely one among many (this has been met with some resistance by what one might call an ‘ecological’ political faction which advocates the embrace and nurturing of the native world above all else).
Born out of these philosophies is the Baksami tradition of anthropology. Fascinated by those accounts provided by the most erudite of magi who have traveled to strange and distant planes, Baksami magi at home have sought to study and observe their own planet in much the same way. For both the purposes of their own curiosity and out of a sense of preservation of culture, Baksami magi have begun, in the past few decades, traveling to the far corners of the world in order to record and preserve the cultures and peoples they find there, as well as to gather cartographic and technological knowledge and to establish potential Baksami trade and diplomatic connections.
The journeys are told from the first-person perspective of one such anthropological-diplomat character. Though his writings are academically acclaimed and he’s a high-standing scholar, he’s something of a Hunter S. Thompson: self-destructive and floaty, the type of mage who “spent too much time floating around in the ether” and seems to have chosen the line of work primarily for its ability to take him to exotic locations free-of-charge. In spite of this apathy, he's a brilliant mage with a knack for the dramatic, as talented at getting into trouble as getting out of it. On the side, he's a collector of rare, exotic, and magical artifacts, no small amount of which have been permanently ‘borrowed’. Though he may seem tumultuous, he's the group's natural leader and driving force in part because his companions are equally unorthodox.
The journeys are told through ‘episode arcs’, largely disconnected storylines that detail their journeys through particular areas of the setting often beginning with the ‘official business’ of the anthropologist but derailed soon thereafter. While some degree of plot consistency is maintained throughout these arcs (and certain secondary characters and storylines string for multiple episodes), in general, episodes are 'stand-alone' affairs, with beginnings and endings, introducing and concluding the primary storyline in each episode, and which should each be comprehensible if read out-of-order. The 'home' from which they depart and to which they return at the beginning and ending of episodes is the Caravan, a magical, self-propelling wagon which is something of a character in and of itself. So there's a revised summary of the idea with the changes you two have recommended, which I'm quite happy with. Now I'm brainstorming who Companion #1 and #2 should be. I think, if there are just going to be 3, they need to be a little more diverse than the Blacklisted-inspired trio I had before. Perhaps in "episode 1" the protagonist -meets- those two companions and the 'party is formed', so as each of them can have a radically different backstory. |
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Post by ASGetty ((Zovo)) on Feb 16, 2016 22:30:10 GMT -5
Now I'm brainstorming who Companion #1 and #2 should be. I think, if there are just going to be 3, they need to be a little more diverse than the Blacklisted-inspired trio I had before. Perhaps in "episode 1" the protagonist -meets- those two companions and the 'party is formed', so as each of them can have a radically different backstory. Well, logically speaking, a scholarly type would probably travel with at least one servant and a body guard. The servant could serve as your straight man; perhaps of a different or even alien race the servant could be the one who keeps our protagonist grounded simply by being, well, closer to the ground. A salt-of-the-earth character who has been in this man's employ long enough that he's able to challenge his employer if not intellectually, then at least pragmatically. Then, there would be the body guard. I'm imagining these Baksami have a warrior caste, some manner of military might? I mean, as intellectually superior as they might be, they still require muscle in order to keep the barbarian hordes at bay. You just don't carve out an empire by simply being smarter. So, I'd think he might either have an official military escort, or maybe a former soldier to keep him out of trouble. I'd also say one of the two should be female; though which of the two you chose would significantly impact on his relationship with said female. Maybe your first episode should include he and his servant seeking out, interviewing and employing the body guard. That way you have one character who has known him for a while and is familiar with his idiosyncrasies, and another who is just getting to know him and has not yet come to terms with said idiosyncrasies. |
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Post by James on Feb 16, 2016 22:31:03 GMT -5
Now I'm brainstorming who Companion #1 and #2 should be. I think, if there are just going to be 3, they need to be a little more diverse than the Blacklisted-inspired trio I had before. Perhaps in "episode 1" the protagonist -meets- those two companions and the 'party is formed', so as each of them can have a radically different backstory. Hmm. I must say I like the idea of the three already being pre-existing friends. It cements their bond more than if episode 1 involves meeting these two companions (because then they feel like the add-ons that other characters might later be). One of the companions should definitely be the Storyteller. A gifted storyteller who uses a bit of magic to make his or her tales come to life. Like using fire to cast a shadow and then making those shadows come alive to form the shapes of humans, animals and gods. Also they'd be a nice contrast with your protagonist. The protagonist is a scholar of high-standing. The Storyteller is someone who mostly uses their gift to find free bedding and food while they travel the world. They care about having a "high-standing" and has mocked the protagonist for his "success" for as long as they've known each other. |
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Post by James on Feb 16, 2016 22:35:07 GMT -5
Oh, Zovo's idea makes quite a lot of sense.
Maybe the Storyteller ends up being one of these characters that join up with them later for a few "episodes" before leaving.
... I just really liked the Storyteller character Sensar, you and I brainstormed.
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Post by ASGetty ((Zovo)) on Feb 16, 2016 22:35:15 GMT -5
One of the companions should definitely be the Storyteller. A gifted storyteller who uses a bit of magic to make his tales come to life. Like using fire to cast a shadow and then making those shadows come alive to form the shapes of humans, animals and gods. Also he'd be a nice contrast with your protagonist. The protagonist is a scholar of high-standing. The Storyteller is someone who mostly uses his gift to find free bedding and food while he travels the world. He doesn't care about having a "high-standing" and has mocked the protagonist for his "success" for as long as they've known each other. I like this. Perhaps the servant character I mentioned has a folksy background like a gypsy or something and some latent magical prowess where, without really even trying, his stories sort of enhance themselves. The sort of ability/attribute that wouldn't come to light until a few episodes in. |
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Post by ASGetty ((Zovo)) on Feb 16, 2016 22:41:33 GMT -5
Man, this might be a fun tie-in to a Character Building Competition.....
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Post by James on Feb 16, 2016 22:46:57 GMT -5
Man, this might be a fun tie-in to a Character Building Competition..... Spoilers. |
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Post by Kaez on Feb 16, 2016 22:47:53 GMT -5
You guys are great. The servant+storyteller idea works really well, actually. The duo have something that vaguely resembles a hero+sidekick dynamic, but as becomes increasingly evident, the sidekick is not a mere servant -- they're, in fact, a gifted storyteller and a complex, nuanced character in their own right.
Now... that character could be a member of the lower class of Baksam and kind of a 'servant'. But if the character is a female, I think it could simply be the protagonist's wife or sister.
And I think it's more intuitive for that character to be a female than the bodyguard-type.
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Post by ASGetty ((Zovo)) on Feb 16, 2016 22:52:07 GMT -5
You guys are great. The servant+storyteller idea works really well, actually. The duo have something that vaguely resembles a hero+sidekick dynamic, but as becomes increasingly evident, the sidekick is not a mere servant -- they're, in fact, a gifted storyteller and a complex, nuanced character in their own right. Now... that character could be a member of the lower class of Baksam and kind of a 'servant'. But if the character is a female, I think it could simply be the protagonist's wife or sister. And I think it's more intuitive for that character to be a female than the bodyguard-type. Or you could just as easily make your protagonist a female. |
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Post by Kaez on Feb 16, 2016 23:58:37 GMT -5
Idea:
Character 1
Despite being a well-known and renowned scholar, he's an adventurous, risk-taking, somewhat self-destructive type. When he’s comfortable, he’s a lighthearted, comedic, antihero kind of character who approaches life playfully and doesn't take like too seriously. When he’s uncomfortable, however, he can be highly opinionated and responds very poorly to authority, and reacts to crises by becoming cold and selfish, and is terribly stubborn to a fault. He can seem unemotional and detached to others, but this selfishness is more of a self-preservation tactic, and he is capable of being a very fierce, devoted, loyal friend.
His adventurousness and risk-taking culminates in self-destructive tendencies, and he's fond of using both drugs and magic to escape reality. He's the kind of character who a mage might describe as "spending too much floating in the ether". Unsurprisingly, he’s an unstable character, whose actions can be difficult to predict and adapt to the circumstances around him. In a library, he might become a thriving intellectual, and in the mountains, he might meditate under the stars. He’s the kind of guy who will save the day by skillfully and cleverly solving the dilemma facing his comrades, but will follow this by retreating back into his own world -- as good at getting them into trouble as getting them out of it. At any given moment, he might be spouting weird philosophies and be high or drunk, or he might be engaging in highly intellectual conversation. He’s not grounded in anything, and to a fault. He’s striving toward mysticism and spiritual heights, but at the same time can be quite self-centered and readily indulges in food and drink and sex. He’s constantly trying to push the envelope, but falls back to the superficial. From his perspective, he’s wobbling between achieving the mage's ideal of transcending convetnions and living in a world where he fully embraces every moment for what it is.
Character 2
A little more old-fashioned, a little more level-head, and a little more self-aware than his best friend. On the surface, he's a large, powerful, intimidating character and on a movie poster, might appear to be the "dumb bodyguard" to contrast the protagonist. In fact, he's something of a jack-of-all-trades. While it's true that he's got the pragmatic, practical skills necessary to get by, beneath his gruff exterior is a nuanced character who rivals the protagonist in intelligence and has a variety of interests and hobbies. Very well-learned and cultured, he's the owner of the caravan, along with the plants inside of it, which he cares for meticulously. He's stoic, calm, and centered, and keeps the group on the rails when they begin to stray.
He also happens to be a professional criminal. As the protagonist has a tendency of blowing through all of his funding within a fortnight, much of their travel is fueled by Character 2's skills as a conman, thief, trafficker of stolen and 'exotic' goods, and bounty hunter. He is motivated by a complex borderline-Randian disregard for conventional morality, and strong politics, which straddle the line between sympathetic and evil (it's easy to agree with him about the injustices inherent in medieval class and economic systems -- it's harder to agree with his willingness to kill on behalf of a shady criminal syndicate). His work provides the money, the caravan, and the connections necessary to secure their journeys, but at the cost of sometimes getting them into quite a lot of shit.
EDIT: Drop the 'criminal' and just leave the 'bounty hunter' - emphasize his 'straight man' role prioritizing law, order, and structure and lose the criminal neuroses.
Character 3
The odd-girl out. A new and somewhat disruptive addition to what was previously a duo, she's something of a gypsy with mysterious origins that seem to change every time she tells them. At first, she strikes one as a tomboy. She's rough around the edges (as any girl surviving largely on her own would have to be in a world like this) and has clearly seen, and personally dealt with, her fair share of rough shit -- but still lurking beneath the surface is something of a girly-girl, and when she's given the rare opportunity to indulge in that, she at least makes an attempt to take it. She's brighter and more energetic and optimistic than the other two, and rather than Arcanism, prescribes to her own variant of Orthodoxy. While the protagonist's magic is methodological and geometric, hers is fluid and organic. It takes the form of a strange natural luck she seems to carry with her, when the universe seems to simply bend in her favor, and more explicitly, in her storytelling.
Her storytelling is hypnotic and unearthly, and her tales are brought to vivid life in strange and subtle ways when she tells them. Gathering stories and meeting people with tales to share seems to be her primary motivation in the world (and there's a sense that her love for stories may come from her long-lost parents, another shady and possibly sad party of her backstory). She manages to tag along, initially, my evoking the pity of Character 2, who despite his gruffness and immorality, has a soft underbelly of fatherly instincts toward her. She wins her security and permanency in the group my impressing Character 1 with her unusual magics. While she trails a bit behind the other two in terms of learnedness, she's got a "street smart" cleverness to her that outshines both of them at times, and she quickly proves herself useful to both of their endeavors: she's naturally skilled at finding interesting stories and culture for Character 1, and her self-sufficiency over the years has made her a talented companion-in-crime to Character 2. She's accompanied by a pet cat.
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Post by James on Feb 17, 2016 0:34:43 GMT -5
"She's accompanied by a pet cat."
I see what you did there.
I feel like Character 1 and 3 are on point and are going to work really well in this story.
I'm still a little undecided on character 2, though. What you have works. No doubt. But does this story need more of a "straight man"? Someone's who getting a bit too old for this shit but is going along as a favour (to Character 1's Dad?). An ex-solider. Traveling to make sure his best mate's son doesn't get himself killed. Someone who's quite close-minded which can then let you play with prejudices when highlighting your culture.
But like I said, what you have now also works. Just my first instincts.
Also, should the Caravan belong to Character 1? So that first person perspective can really make the object come alive. Just something to think about.
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