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Post by Croswynd on May 11, 2015 16:51:14 GMT -5
For some reason, my first thought was that it's easier to think of High Fantasy happening in Europe and Asia. And then it occurred to me that it's easier to see Urban Fantasy as an American city/country setting.
So I wonder if I see Urban Fantasy as an American setting simply because I'm American. Which makes me wonder, for those of you not living in America, where do you see Urban Fantasy taking place? Just major cities anywhere in the world, specifically in your own countries' cities, or American? I can only assume it's the first, with initial reactions being the second, while only I, and maybe some other Americans, see it as the third. Upon thinking about it further, I could classify Eoin Colfer's Artemis Fowl series as Urban Fantasy, so perhaps it truly is the first. Or perhaps I'm thinking more of Modern Fantasy. Is there a difference between Urban and Modern Fantasy?
And now I wonder if High Fantasy can't happen in North America prior to the colonization by Europe's countries through Native American lenses. But then, there were no giant empires like Britain back then forming the basis for stories like King Arthur, and people were spread out, aside from Central American cultures, at least in my mind.
What are your thoughts?
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Post by James on May 11, 2015 17:03:41 GMT -5
I mean, technically, high fantasy can't happen -anywhere- on Earth because high fantasy by its definition is in a secondary world. But if you're going by influences, yeah, I can definitely see a European or Asian influence being more applicable to high fantasy than North America. So I wonder if I see Urban Fantasy as an American setting simply because I'm American. Which makes me wonder, for those of you not living in America, where do you see Urban Fantasy taking place? Just major cities anywhere in the world, specifically in your own countries' cities, or American? I can only assume it's the first, with initial reactions being the second, while only I, and maybe some other Americans, see it as the third. Upon thinking about it further, I could classify Eoin Colfer's Artemis Fowl series as Urban Fantasy, so perhaps it truly is the second. Or perhaps I'm thinking more of Modern Fantasy. Is there a difference between Urban and Modern Fantasy? Wherever the book says. I think good urban fantasy makes the setting almost a character. While not a fantasy, London is so important to Sherlock Holmes. An alternate UK still felt very British in Angelmaker. I've never been to Chicago, but you can feel its general ideal in the Dresden Files. Flex would seem very different if it wasn't set in New York, where the weight of its bureaucracy lends support to the magic system. I imagine the story takes place where the writer has decided it to take place. One of the things that irrationally annoy me is how divorced from 1990s Britain, Harry Potter has become. For instance, that first chapter in the Half-Blood Prince screams the IRA and yet I don't think that comes across anymore. I imagine the general understanding of Harry Potter and a British understanding of it is actually surprisingly different. |
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Post by James on May 11, 2015 17:05:37 GMT -5
I do think a high fantasy world inspired on the mythology of Native Americans would be quite interesting. Very much like Zovo's stories were fascinating using a Polynesian basis.
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Post by ASGetty ((Zovo)) on May 11, 2015 17:12:47 GMT -5
For some reason, my first thought was that it's easier to think of High Fantasy happening in Europe and Asia. And then it occurred to me that it's easier to see Urban Fantasy as an American city/country setting. And now I wonder if High Fantasy can't happen in North America prior to the colonization by Europe's countries through Native American lenses. But then, there were no giant empires like Britain back then forming the basis for stories like King Arthur, and people were spread out, aside from Central American cultures, at least in my mind. I think that's true, in part because a lot of the tropes we associate with high fantasy (knights, dragons, pricesses, etc) where born out of the mythology and monarchist traditions of those areas. I absolutely think you could do American High fantasy, and I think it would be an amazing departure from what people are used to. The american continents were home to a number of great empires. The Aztecs, Maya, Inca, Olmec, Anasazi, Iriquois, etc; it's just that they were each, in turn, largely ruined by disease due to their exposure to European explorers. Then, of course, the American expansion and manifest destiny mindset had the white man bulldozing across the continent so quickly that the majority of that history simply wasn't preserved. If you could get your hands on some reliable sources for Native American mythology, I think you could create an amazing American high-fantasy. Local, native mythology and tradition was one of the things I tried to tap into a little bit with our World Building competition, though I opted for low-fantasy there. I think Urban/Modern fantasy tend to localize themselves to an environment the author is comfortable with. I think, partly, because as a genre it incorporates the familiar. It takes things you use every day and makes them fantastic; which is why I think you might think of Urban Fantasy as an American thing. . . Because you're American. The only distinguishing line I see between Modern Fantasy and urban fantasy, is that Modern is a little more general in that it can take place anywhere so long as it meets the temporal criteria of modern; could be a modern farm, or forest, or metropolis, or cave, or whatever. Urban fantasy, though, takes place in the city and isn't necessarily confined by time; you could have an urban fantasy take place in the distant past or far future, so long as it occurs in an urban environment. |
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Post by James on May 11, 2015 17:21:04 GMT -5
I absolutely think you could do American High fantasy, and I think it would be an amazing departure from what people are used to. The american continents were home to a number of great empires. The Aztecs, Maya, Inca, Olmec, Anasazi, Iriquois, etc; it's just that they were each, in turn, largely ruined by disease due to their exposure to European explorers. Then, of course, the American expansion and manifest destiny mindset had the white man bulldozing across the continent so quickly that the majority of that history simply wasn't preserved. If you could get your hands on some reliable sources for Native American mythology, I think you could create an amazing American high-fantasy. Local, native, one of the things I tried to tap into a little bit with our World Building competition, though I opted for low-fantasy there. Also, I think being inspired by Native American mythology to create a new high fantasy world gives the writer a little more freedom to make slight changes. Whereas if you were writing an urban fantasy story with a Native American bent, I think people would be less forgiving if you made changes for the sake of the story (because you're now playing around with a real culture, not just being inspired by it). |
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Post by ASGetty ((Zovo)) on May 11, 2015 17:36:40 GMT -5
I absolutely think you could do American High fantasy, and I think it would be an amazing departure from what people are used to. The american continents were home to a number of great empires. The Aztecs, Maya, Inca, Olmec, Anasazi, Iriquois, etc; it's just that they were each, in turn, largely ruined by disease due to their exposure to European explorers. Then, of course, the American expansion and manifest destiny mindset had the white man bulldozing across the continent so quickly that the majority of that history simply wasn't preserved. If you could get your hands on some reliable sources for Native American mythology, I think you could create an amazing American high-fantasy. Local, native, one of the things I tried to tap into a little bit with our World Building competition, though I opted for low-fantasy there. Also, I think being inspired by Native American mythology to create a new high fantasy world gives the writer a little more freedom to make slight changes. Whereas if you were writing an urban fantasy story with a Native American bent, I think people would be less forgiving if you made changes for the sake of the story (because you're now playing around with a real culture, not just being inspired by it). Yeah, that was a -big- consideration when I was doing the world building. I wanted to use ideas which were inspired by Polynesian mythology and customs, but I deliberately worked to make sure I wasn't incorporating -actual- mythology or customs. I even went so far as to google every single name or noun I made up to make sure they didn't mean anything. Which is weird, if you think about it, because you guys are likely the only one's who will read it; I could probably reiterate the stories of Maui word for word and you'd never know the difference. |
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Post by James on May 11, 2015 17:38:24 GMT -5
Also, I think being inspired by Native American mythology to create a new high fantasy world gives the writer a little more freedom to make slight changes. Whereas if you were writing an urban fantasy story with a Native American bent, I think people would be less forgiving if you made changes for the sake of the story (because you're now playing around with a real culture, not just being inspired by it). Yeah, that was a -big- consideration when I was doing the world building. I wanted to use ideas which were inspired by Polynesian mythology and customs, but I deliberately worked to make sure I wasn't incorporating -actual- mythology or customs. I even went so far as to google every single name or noun I made up to make sure they didn't mean anything. Which is weird, if you think about it, because you guys are likely the only one's who will read it; I could probably reiterate the stories of Maui word for word and you'd never know the difference. I'd imagine there would be some crossover with Maori mythology, so I might recognise some of it. |
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Post by ASGetty ((Zovo)) on May 11, 2015 17:40:08 GMT -5
Yeah, that was a -big- consideration when I was doing the world building. I wanted to use ideas which were inspired by Polynesian mythology and customs, but I deliberately worked to make sure I wasn't incorporating -actual- mythology or customs. I even went so far as to google every single name or noun I made up to make sure they didn't mean anything. Which is weird, if you think about it, because you guys are likely the only one's who will read it; I could probably reiterate the stories of Maui word for word and you'd never know the difference. I'd imagine there would be some crossover with Maori mythology, so I might recognise some of it. That's possible, yes. |
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Post by James on May 11, 2015 17:41:49 GMT -5
Anybody ever got around to fishing up some islands or catching the sun in a net?
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Post by ASGetty ((Zovo)) on May 11, 2015 17:59:32 GMT -5
Maui, I believe, fished up an island; and the fishhook became a constellation.
Not sure on the catching the sun thing.
Edit: well, he fished up a fish which -became- an island.
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Post by Matteo ((Taed)) on May 11, 2015 18:05:27 GMT -5
There's a rather good urban fantasy story, called Alif the Unseen, that's set in the Middle East. The specific city is nameless, but it could very easily be Dubai or Riyadh.
It's interesting because, with a few minor exceptions, the parts in the city are largely mundane, whereas the fantastical sequences take place out in the desert. There's a pretty clear line between the two. Which is different, I think, from what you see in a lot of American and British urban fantasy. It also interfaces with a lot of semi-unique Arab themes, like the relationship between tradition and innovation, and the freedom of information in a surveillance state. The main plot is mostly about the ownership of a magical book in the context of the digital revolution and the Arab Spring.
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Post by James on May 11, 2015 18:29:25 GMT -5
Maui, I believe, fished up an island; and the fishhook became a constellation. Not sure on the catching the sun thing. Edit: well, he fished up a fish which -became- an island. See, the North Island of New Zealand was actually fished up by... Maui. ... oh. Oh yeah, there's some crossover. |
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Post by James on May 11, 2015 18:30:05 GMT -5
There's a rather good urban fantasy story, called Alif the Unseen, that's set in the Middle East. The specific city is nameless, but it could very easily be Dubai or Riyadh. It's interesting because, with a few minor exceptions, the parts in the city are largely mundane, whereas the fantastical sequences take place out in the desert. There's a pretty clear line between the two. Which is different, I think, from what you see in a lot of American and British urban fantasy. It also interfaces with a lot of semi-unique Arab themes, like the relationship between tradition and innovation, and the freedom of information in a surveillance state. The main plot is mostly about the ownership of a magical book in the context of the digital revolution and the Arab Spring. Hmm. I might keep an eye out for that. |
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Post by ASGetty ((Zovo)) on May 11, 2015 18:32:05 GMT -5
Maui, I believe, fished up an island; and the fishhook became a constellation. Not sure on the catching the sun thing. Edit: well, he fished up a fish which -became- an island. See, the North Island of New Zealand was actually fished up by... Maui. ... oh. Oh yeah, there's some crossover. It would appear so, yes. |
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Post by Kaez on May 11, 2015 22:28:48 GMT -5
I took an Anthro course on Mesoamerican civilizations and archaeology, and it inspired a whole, fairly massive region in my fantasy setting. That was the first step I took in pushing my setting out of European Medieval fantasy and into the plethora it is now, actually. There's such a rich culture to be inspired by in that area, and in other areas not generally thought of as core cultures (like southeast Asia or subsaharan Africa).
Hell, even if you don't write about out it, shit's interesting and educational. Our history books focus so much on the big progenitor cultures they make the rest seem like "offshoots", which is a WAY outdated belief according to historians.
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